People Being Pushed into Poverty – Neil Duncan-Jordan MP

“We’re looking at 400,000 people being pushed into poverty because of these cuts, including hundreds of thousands of children.”

Neil Duncan-Jordan MP

The following is a transcript of Neil Duncan-Jordan MP‘s interview with Justin Webb on the Radio 4 Today programme on the issue of the Government’s DWP Pathways to Work Green Paper and proposed cuts to disability welfare payments.

Justin Webb

What do you think the message from the government needs to be? Because we’re hearing a lot of discussions, aren’t we hearing a lot of talk behind the scenes? What would you like to hear from ministers? 

Neil Duncan-Jordan

That whilst there’s a lot of talk, we’re not seeing a lot of action. I’m concerned that we really need to pause the welfare cuts. We need to make sure that MPs are not voting to make people poorer before they have all the information before them. So this idea that we should just keep pressing ahead would be absolutely wrong. So I really want the government to come out and say we’re going to pause the Green Paper, we’re going to start talking to disabled organisations about how to redesign the benefit system and we’re going to invest today in getting disabled people back into work. 

Justin Webb

We’re getting a speech today from the Work and Pension Secretary. Are you at all optimistic that that pause might come as soon as today? 

Neil Duncan-Jordan 

I’m not optimistic at all. I think what we’re going to hear this morning is that we’re going further faster and we’re doubling down on the cut. So I’m extremely concerned, given that these welfare proposals will affect around about 3 million people by the end of the five year period and we’re looking at 400,000 people being pushed into poverty because of these cuts, including hundreds of thousands of children. Those aren’t things that Labour MPs want to sign up to, frankly. 

Justin Webb

There is an employment scheme, isn’t there, that’s attached to it. But what some people say is the sequencing is wrong. In other words, the cuts happen before the scheme. Absolutely, you’re absolutely right. So the cuts happen in 2026 and the scheme kicks in in 2029. The sequencing is absolutely wrong. And you will be aware that if you’re an employer taking on somebody who hasn’t been in the workplace for a number of years, you’re going to need some incentive to do that, probably. And that’s going to cost money. Whether that’s for a tax rebate or something to do with NI, you’re going to need some assistance. So we’re going to have to invest to get people back to work, not cut their benefits. 

Justin Webb

I don’t know if you’ve Seen the Telegraph today? Rayner’s secret plan to tax savers. This is a Memo or set of memos that they’ve got hold of that seems to have been written from Angela Rayner’s department. Angela Rayner, of course, the Deputy Prime Minister, but also the Department of Local Government and Communities just suggesting some tax rises, essentially ones affecting wealthier people that the government ought to be considering. I mean one eye-catching one is a reinstatement of the pension’s lifetime allowance. Are those the sorts of things you think the government should be considering? 

Neil Duncan-Jordan

Absolutely. There’s a very healthy debate inside the Labour Party at the moment about how we should be raising additional funds rather than cutting benefits. And there’s a menu, I think, of options that we should be using and these are just some of those. 

Justin Webb

Do you think that backbenchers are being sufficiently listened to on this? Because we have talked before to backbenchers on the programme. I mean the degree of concern that you have expressed this morning is not going to be anything new to ministers. Are they listening enough? And would you, when it came to a vote, presumably will do on the welfare cuts? Are you willing to vote against the government? 

Neil Duncan-Jordan

I mean listening is one thing. Hearing is something completely different and changing your direction is something completely different. So you can have a conversation with somebody and listen to what they say, but not make any changes at all. It’s the changes that we want to see. We want to see the government pause on these proposals and we want to have all the information before us before we vote. If things don’t change from the proposals as they stand, I certainly can’t be supporting these. And I was one of a number of Labour MPs who wrote a letter to the Guardian saying exactly that. 

Justin Webb

Neil Duncan Jordan, MP for Poole. Thank you.

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• Neil Duncan-Jordan is the Labour MP for Poole. You can follow him on Twitter/X, Facebook and Instagram.
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